As with my last Clannad post, I’m going to go ahead and warn you now. The path you are about to take is a spoiled one. Do not proceed. Your innocence will be eliminated. If that didn’t make it clear enough: there are spoilers past the jump, you’ve been warned.
Well, I was rather surprised with the path they chose to give us. I’m betting that this is the game’s ‘Good End,’ but somehow it felt a bit like cheating. I said before, that this kind of end would feel like a cop out and honestly it still did feel that way. They did it in probably the best possible way, but it still feels like cheating. As expected, Tomoya realized that not meeting her would be worse than meeting her, even if meeting her would mean her death. This was probably the best part of the episode and the one that had the most impact. Seeing Tomoya rush back to Nagisa and hug her with all his might, while she confessed that she didn’t regret any of it and that she was worried that it was actually Tomoya who was hurt by their meeting was really touching.
All in all, I think having Tomoya come back to the moment in time when Nagisa died, giving birth to Ushio, was probably the best way to get around the fact that she had already died. Even still, like I said, it felt like it was too easy. And all the emotions spent on the stuff that happened after Nagisa died were null and void.
As for the junk doll and the girl in the Illusionary World, I think we all realized that the doll was Tomoya, but I actually thought for a while that the girl was Nagisa. Well, it was a decent conclusion to draw in the first season since I had no knowledge of there being a child, but I was kinda surprised when she revealed who she was. It does do something really good though, as it binds us more tightly to Ushio. Previous to this, we had only known Ushio for 5 episodes really, now we realize we’ve known about her and seen her all the time, as long as Nagisa even. Then again, as Ushio doesn’t actually die either, it kinda renders the need for us to cry for her moot.
Not surprisingly, I’m looking forward to the next episode, as it seems to show what would have happened if Tomoya hadn’t talked to Nagisa at the bottom of that path. It looks like they want to show us what the bad end would’ve been as well, so I’m interested to see how bad of an end it will be or if it will be something completely different. I really would’ve liked if they had done it in reverse though. It might’ve had a lot more impact if we had seen Tomoya and Nagisa’s lives if they had never met, then somehow he was given another chance to meet her at the bottom of that hill. I suppose they could’ve stalled the Illusionary World until he needed to meet Nagisa again at the bottom of the hill, after he had seen what his life would be like without meeting her there, then gone on to realize his mistake.
I’m guessing what I just described is what actually happens in the visual novel. (Hinano, feel free to chime in here :p) I’m guessing you get to what we saw in the anime, you’re facing Nagisa again for the first time, and you’re forced (you don’t have a choice) to ignore her, thinking it’s better for her to have never met you. Then, of course, you get the ‘bad’ or ‘true’ end or whatever it’ll be called. Then you go on and since you can ignore Nagisa at the bottom of the hill, you spend time with the other girls, finding out more about them and getting their ‘ends.’ Once you’ve done all that, I’d guess you go through the whole game one more time with Nagisa, but there’s some stuff that changes along the way, and hopefully not just being able to choose at the very end to meet her, even knowing after going through all the pain of losing both her and Ushio.
So, thinking along that line, I think it would be rather interesting if they had done the bad end and then the good end. I’m guessing the reason they didn’t is mostly because they didn’t want to piss people off and have everything thinking that Clannad gave them a bad end. Granted, it would be really hard to stuff an entire bad end into one episode and then reasonably reverse it in the next, so I can’t really blame them for that. Still, I’m actually more interested in this next episode (if it really is the ‘bad’ end) than I am for this episode. We’ll see if my mind is changed when I actually get to watch it.
There’s not really a whole lot to say about the ‘epilogue’ part of the episode, but it was nice seeing Fuko again. As expected, she was still as crazy and childish as ever, but she still managed to be pretty funny. Although, for a moment, I thought she actually saw the girl from the Illusionary World. I mean, the actual girl as she was, not Ushio. I was kinda hoping, because I felt kinda bad for her, even if she was going to be reborn anyway, it still kinda sucked. But it turned out it really was just Ushio. I’m not sure if Fuko may have seen a glimpse into the Illusionary World or not, but it would be interesting if she did.
On a very important note, Kyou-sensei is still FUCKING AWESOME. Do want.
EDIT: Ok, so it turns out the next episode is the first day (or two) at school from Nagisa’s point of view instead of Tomoya’s. Damn, guess I really will have to play the game to find out what the bad end is like. Well, I was planning on it anyway, because I wanted to see what Kyou’s route was like, so I guess this’ll just give me more motivation~
Nagi said
Well, sorry to spoil it, but… you saw the bad ending. The bad ending is exactly what you watched up to Ushio’s death. At that point it takes you to the title screen after you’re told in the illusionary world that you have to collect more light orbs (not quite as blunt as saying that though). The bad ending is fuel for the true ending, simple as that. While a reset may be cheating in most cases, I think they put it together really well here and I didn’t feel any hate towards it. You just have to know and accept the storyline…
nazarielle said
@Nagi: Yeah, and that’s why I want to play the game. I feel like after playing through the game, an ending like that would feel deserved. I still enjoyed it, but I guess I’m just kinda surprised that Clannad, at the very end, decided to go for an ‘everyone is happy’ end. It was really well done though, no doubt about it. Anyway, I figured the bad ending would have to be something close to that. I just kinda thought they’d also make you see Tomoya go back and turn Nagisa down, just based on the way the anime went. Though what you said is a bad enough end as it is.
lelangir said
OK, so, first and foremost, KYOU-SENSEI SAIKOUUUUUUUU.
Ahem. COP OUT ENDING LIKE ANYTHING. Time travel? Wtf? Ungh. I don’t think the Nagisa emotions were lost, they came back; to me, her revive revival was great, awesome. But the ending was shit. Fuuko? Jesus waste of time. And they sucked at using the ED song, they did an awesome job of using the ED in Kanon. Too ambiguous.fasmlaksjlkjlfjfjsiJOI*U$%U*(FojijdgOSIFF (屮゜Д゜)屮 (屮゜Д゜)屮 (屮゜Д゜)屮(屮゜Д゜)屮(屮゜Д゜)屮(屮゜Д゜)屮(屮゜Д゜)屮(屮゜Д゜)屮(屮゜Д゜)屮(屮゜Д゜)屮(屮゜Д゜)屮(屮゜Д゜)屮(屮゜Д゜)屮
oh, and did you catch okazaki/nagisa/ushio walking UP the hill? That’s contrasted from when Misuzu was being wheeled DOWN the hill. So there’s a contrast of life/death there which was nice (coincidental? who cares!)
nazarielle said
OH MY GOD YOU JUST SPOILED AIR FOR ME GG I HAVEN’T SEEN IT YET
I guess I shouldn’t have said it would be a cop out. It just seems like when they bring a character back who really truly is dead, then the point of them killing them off in the first place was just to get you emotional. Which I think is what Pontifus was saying in his post about my post before this post. Post.
And man, so much HAET for poor Fuko. Although, I can’t argue with the fact that I would’ve rather them spent that time on Kyou and some of the other more important characters. We hardly got to see them. It would’ve been nice to see more of Tomoyo than her just stand on a beach staring out at the ocean.
omisyth said
Yeah, time travel was really just a poor way to go about things ni my opinion. Clannad was never a show completely grounded in reality, but it wasn’t a show where you’d think they’s use a quick-fix happy-happy solution like this either. Takes aaway from the impact of the ending and kind of makes the last 7 or 8 episodes seem pointless (which were the best in the series).
nazarielle said
@omisyth: Well, honestly, it was really the only way they could bring Nagisa back without it being so incredibly absurd that no one would believe it. If they just brought Nagisa back magically when Ushio and Tomoya were outside dying in the snow, it wouldn’t make much sense. So, really, they did it in the best way they could. I wasn’t even thinking about this possibility when I was trying to figure out how it was going to end last week. Which is probably why the idea that Nagisa would be brought back to life just seemed so incredibly absurd to me that I threw it out the window. Basically, it’s probably the least absurd way to have Nagisa be alive again.
But yeah, I agree. It really did make most of the end of the series meaningless (as it didn’t actually happen). This is where the conflict of mediums comes in. A VN, being a non-linear medium, is designed to be played through multiple times with different routes, where anime is very strictly linear. Trying to translate from the VN into the anime causes some (obvious) problems. With the VN, you go through all the bad times and then are finally rewarded with the good end, as the fruit of your ‘labor.’ In the anime, we sorta get a feel for that, but the distance between the worst and the best is very small, so it feels like we cheated by skipping over the middle part where we do our best to fulfill everyone elses’ wishes so our wish can be fulfilled in return.
Anyway, even though the ending seemed really out of order, I feel like the ending itself was good. I would’ve probably taken a different path, but the way it which it was concluded was very well done. The ending itself couldn’t have been sweeter. Wait, I take that back, it could have been, if there had been more Kyou.
xephfyre said
The CLANNAD VN’s translated, so go check it out!
And the emotions spent on Nagisa are sort of echoed in the unknown world. You know, struggle uphill, labour of love, with you to the very end…et al.
Clannadstrophe | Super Fanicom said
[...] adds later that “all the emotions spent on the stuff that happened after Nagisa died were null and [...]
Nagi said
Honestly, you all know you loved the ending. What else could they do in that situation? Show Tomoya jumping from a bridge and then the end credits? There was nothing left for him, and he was a wreck. Story pointed him down the path of a reset, and it was his best option. I also agree with xephyre, if you play the VN I really think you’ll appreciate it much more.
blkmage said
It’s fascinating to see how all the people who’ve played the VN are all like “yeah, this totally makes sense and was exactly what I was expecting, the ending is meaningful” while those who haven’t are all like “what the hell, everything is meaningless, time travel, deus ex machina”.
nazarielle said
@Nagi: But see that’s the problem. Most of us haven’t played the VN. For the anime, it doesn’t feel like a fitting end. I plan on playing it, and indeed I feel like this would be a good and fitting end for the VN. But the anime is not the VN and we haven’t seen all that we would see in the VN, so I feel that the end is out of place.
@blkmage: Yeah, pretty much what I said above. It works for the VN, but for the anime, it just doesn’t jive well.
lelangir said
would have been hilarious, I wud laf, ei sware.
THAT Animeblog - RESET END OH SHI- said
[...] So for some reason I don’t like bringing up talk about the VN and aspects of adapting material. Yeah, Clannad is an adaptation, yeah, aspects of linearity fail sometimes, that’s inevitable. I’ve been working under the presumption that it is literally impossible to encapsulate the aspect of VN replayability in anime, therefore it’s rather silly to compare an anime to something it is intrinsically incapable of doing because, remember, we’re operating under the philosophy that, basically, the means justify the ends (not a typo). Even if you were to reverse the position, say that Kyoani alters source material, rewrites a few endings, there would still be things that version would be intrinsically incapable of doing, like providing those very reset ends you removed and so forth. [hear hear!] [...]
HA said
You know that all you guys were happy Nagisa was alive and well.
Don’t lie to your self’s it was a great ending!
Final Thoughts on Clannad ~After Story~ « Grand Punk Railroad said
[...] only problem I had with Clannad ~After Story~ was the ending. I believe (and I also think the general consensus is so) that simply performing a reset just undermines all of the experiences between the [...]
WitchHunter said
I don’t think the ending made the rest of the show pointless at all. From the conversations they have in this episode it sounds to me like Tomoya and Nagisa remember the “bad end” events (in Nagisa’s case at least up to her death). So the emotions and whatnot from the rest of the show still count, and are important because Tomoya and Nagisa can fully appreciate the “good end”
HA said
did your guys ever think that maybe in the instant that tomayo saw nagisa close her eye’s that he stared to imagine the worst and everything that had happended
was in his mind? so there 4 Nagisa never really died.
think about it…
nazarielle said
I think I know now what koda must’ve felt like at the end of Geass R2.
@HA: There’s absolutely no reason for anyone to think that, given what we’re presented. If that’s what they really wanted everyone to think, that’s one giant leap for the viewer to make on their own. If they did somehow make that leap, then instead of ‘they went back in time,’ instead it’s ‘it was all a dream.’ That doesn’t make it any less of a reset. Yes, I’m glad Nagisa is alive, but if they wanted her to be alive, why kill her off in the first place?
@WitchHunter: I didn’t mean it made the entire show pointless. It made the last few episodes (17-21) feel contrived. It makes it feel as if they were trying to get in as many emotional punches as they could, because it’d all be forgiven when they bring everyone back to life in the finale.
anitations - collected discourse on Clannad AS end said
[...] Nazarielle writes that [I knew that this] kind of end would feel like a cop out and honestly it still did feel that [...]
Rawr said
Am I the only one who thought that they could have just went with an original anime end where only Ushio gets revived? I’m pretty sure that there’d be a lot less people who would’ve cried foul had only Ushio been revived, since for one, it didn’t null plot progress. Secondly, the orbs would have still meant something, but they would have been a miracle on a much smaller scale. Thirdly, it would have probably made for a more meaningful epilogue than everybody lives happily ever after and life goes on.
Kotomi said
Ending totally made sense to me. Remember in the one episode they said that anyone who can obtain the ball of light gets a wish? Well in a episode when tomoya was with ushio a ball of light flew into his chest. He probally made a wish after ushio died like I wish nagisa and ushio were alive.
Winter Wrap-up « wat u say said
[...] stuff, I didn’t have to wait a week after watching nothing happen, again and again. While I didn’t agree with the ending, I still enjoyed Clannad After Story overall. Now if only we could get an OVA [...]
speedy said
I like this ending i was very sad and depressed look at dying Ushia well to be honest it make me cry…